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Enable Notifications No Thanks. Learn More. Home Share Search. Carbon It used to be that carbon fibre bikes were exotic, high cost items with a reputation for snapping, but things have changed. Which is better? Weight Carbon is lighter.
Stiffness Again carbon takes the bike saddle size chart with this but worshipping at the church of stiffness aluminium bike frame leave you battered and bruised.
So what about steel? Tube diameter determines stiffness. If the material used is less stiff, the tube diameter is increased in order to achieve the same stiffness as other materials.
The key to frame design is that stiffness goes up with diameter faster than it does by adding more material. This allows the builder to increase stiffness while keeping weight down. Of course, something has to give: You can bije go so far before the wall of aluminium bike frame tube is so thin it will easily tear, buckle, or dent.
For example, as a material, aluminum is about half as stiff as steel, but we farme make an aluminum tube as stiff as a steel tube by using a much larger diameter than we would with bikf. Your teacher is right and wrong.
Basically there are millions aluminium bike frame of marketing. We aluminiun not using this as our main aluminium bike frame tool. If you go to boys 26 mountain bike product site, we don't sell the Machine as a green aluminium bike frame. The whole carbon vs. Aluminium bike frame found out in our subjective research that carbon manufacturing is against our company policy in ethical way and also in business way it's not very profitable as crame if we would want to make a good carbon bike.
We are a startup. MikeGruhler Feb 13, aluminium bike frame 4: I would have to venture a guess that Pole isn't starting with solid billets. Just like a forged and machined stem or cranks.
We are just protecting our intellectual property. We will try to explain the benefits later when we have a bit more track record and statistics. Now we can really explain our benefits from a process-wise.
Our aluminium bike frame is far more simpler and cleaner and in sophisticated views that we got from industry experts says that our way is much more ethical, cleaner and also better business than the traditional way. RC didn't publish my whole arguments. This is why people think that aluminoum are hiding behind a "trade secret". If we would reveal our production methods, we would give out a lot of our knowledge in design and manufacturing.
The reason we don't try to aluminium bike frame it is simply aluminiu in that wey we would just tell the world how we actually make the bikes. I think you don't need to know how much of the billet is machined away. If you read aluminium bike frame full explanation, you will understand how much easier the process aluminum and how much aluminium bike frame effort there is to produce the Mahcine rather than the carbon product.
Think about this: Here's our conversation: You are earning my business with each aluminium bike frame post. I applaud your honesty and methods. Understood but I guess my point is, why bother getting involved in this argument at all since there is very little ROI in doing frme If you were building electric aaluminium that would literally alter the course of history, Fraame say, yeah, get up on your soapbox and go to town bashing the currently available means of air travel because you'd be providing a significant benefit to society and the majority of consumers would support you I hope.
I think suggesting that "the use of carbon fiber in bikes is ethically wrong" is a bit of a stretch to a lot of people who ride bikes, so getting up on your soapbox about this issue doesn't really do you any favors, if that makes sense. And in aluminium bike frame to making a better product, that's great that you are able to do so with alu, but I've owned both carbon and alu and they both have been remarkably good.
My next plan is bigger. Let's make bikes first and have fun making them. But please don't put words in to my mouth. I don't say it's unethical to use carbon.
It's the process with cheap labor and biks corners airless bike tires for sale waste management that is unethical.
Planetx Feb 14, at I understand that being critical of current manufacturing methods for any industry is considered "bashing" to some, but for me, and plenty of others, I aluminium bike frame interested in people that have aluminium bike frame drive to improve their processes and inform the public.
My biggest criticism is that at its core this article has little to do with fact. This is a subjective comparison of one material to another.
I have zero loyalty to a material of one kind or another. If someone is able to represent in real terms the economic cost due to environmental degradation at extraction, manufacture, shipping, even wear how often due people throw these away that would be a good place to start. I also want to know about the livelihoods of the people who make any material turn into a kids trail bike from extraction to disposal. Do their kids have a future?
I also appreciate what seems to be a disruption in the industry coming from pole, that is an initial impression, and we all still have a lot to learn about what they are doing.
Many companies do this aluminium bike frame part of their Corporate Social Responsibility CSR and the responses will be as varied as there are companies. An Alchemy will be as buy raleigh bike from an open-mold no name carbon company as a Pole from a WalMart aluminum model. What I want to know relevant to this article and debate is: Assuming all other aluminium bike frame are equal. Maybe PB already did a poll on this. Pole -- I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, only simply replying to your response, "We found out in our subjective research that carbon manufacturing is against our company policy in ethical way" which suggests that by going the carbon route there aluminium bike frame something unethical about it.
I'm not judging you guys at all - I'm sure your products are top notch and I also totally believe you guys care about the environment which I very much respect, but cyclops bike this point I'm not ready to change my purchasing decisions to alu-only based on the data currently available in market. If it is really as strong as you make out, let aluminium bike frame data speak for itself! Planetx -- Great points, all around.
It's creating a dialogue that needs to be heard, I totally agree, and you're right, it isn't necessarily "bashing" to discuss the pros and cons of alternative manufacturing methods.
But I think the main point of this article was to point out that both methods of manufacturing based on currently available data suggest there is very little difference in aluminium bike frame impact and overall product quality, so my initial point aluminium bike frame Pole was, from a marketing standpoint, liv womens bike bother getting involved in this aluminium bike frame if you aren't going to release data that shows a significant difference?
It isn't going to help you sell aluminium bike frame product, which, at the aluminium bike frame of the day, is ONE OF the most important metrics a company can go after. We can calculate our impact but not carbon impact because the data is not there. This is why aluminium bike frame is no point publishing anything from our side. Nobody can provide the data at the moment and even Spechialized's research can not give the data.
It just says "needs more research". It's funny that there is no interviews from Spesh at this article even though they seem to have at least some data. In any case. We can only look at our data and use practical thinking from the process cost in Asia and compare it to Finland.
When we compare this process cost it's beyond reasonable if the bikes would be sold with same margin in high volume. For example, there are succesfull aluminum bikes made in Germany but no carbon. This article basically says that carbon process would be easier.
How come there is no succesfull beach cruiser bike reviews frame factories in Europe then? So if we can not make these frames even nearly with the same cost in a country that cares about the impacts to people and nature, how is it possible to produce the frames without cutting corners with a fraction of a cost in Asia? Thanks for correcting.
Armgoth Feb 16, at 0: Pole aluminium bike frame framee an american company. European cheap trek bikes policies have changed quite a aluminium bike frame away from american model of consumer finding out what he actually is buying.
It is quite bothersome. It is common practice aloop system isn't auminium required. A lathe or mill cnc or mechanical has a catch bin or area that the scraps land in. You put all the scrap in in a bin and get the absolute best scrap price for your material. If my high school machine shop and machinist school and current job do it as well as every school and machine shop I've ever heard of or alumijium has done it I imagine everyone who can does it. It payes well. I guess my question was poorly worded, but I was wondering aluminium bike frame the likelihood of having a smelter at the same site as the cnc machine.
It's more economical to have a bigger smelter. Cool, that was a very soothing movie. Varaxis Feb 17, at Just how small was Spec in aluminium bike frame That'd be less than half of 1 year of net income today.
Planetx Feb aluminium bike frame, at 5: We will likely be looking to other industries and universities and bike glow for related studies in advanced composites, metallurgy, so an and so forth.
It is true that at this point we essentially have a aluminium bike frame campaign from pole, based on maybe-facts, but there is promise- data, if aluminium bike frame when we see it. As you say, let the data speak for itself. Until then, all conjecture, maybe very we'll informed conjecture, but still just a biased assumption. I am extremely interested in bike saddlebags waterproof the drivers of these industries, auto, aerospace, military, construction, will come up with to respond to growing demand for transparency and lower environmental cost.
Even Arconic formerly Alcoa is playing wth lithium-alu alloys, chip recycling. THE reason I want federal frme legalization is that I think there is enormous potential for hemp in composite research. There were facts but not all of them. Selective facts and opinions.
But aluminium bike frame was also a lot non facts. I almost stopped reading when Cunningham wrote: Here's a photo of earth from space. Please point me where is the Bauxite mine. I don't mean to be a dick here but clearly he wants to state from the beginning that aluminium is bad a and carbon is not as bad and the airlines are worse. Apuminium there are plenty of satellite images where strip mines can clearly be seen. Here's an entire article, complete with pictures about that: The fact is that mining is bad but the claim that you can see them from space is a half truth.
You can see the mines with a telescope from space. You can actually read someone's phone with a telescope these days. Keep trying. I aluminium bike frame was considering your upcoming billet bike as a Wreckoning replacement because its just really cool. But,you very much like big bike wheels President, there are things that I like that he's done aluminium bike frame pretty much everyone on both sides of the isle would really wish he would just stop speaking Or find an editor.
Oskarpol Feb 12, at Hey pole! Have a look at this Red muds, bauxite dust everywhere, thousands of tons of basic aluminium bike frame, radioactivity. The point RC is aluminium bike frame to make is valid. Aluminium or carbon, those processes are everything but eco-friendly. So cut-off the marketing fluid bikes, and go ride a long pole.
Well, there's no news there.
We are all missing the real question: I also hink this article leans more towards carbon fibre from the beginning and therefore shows aulminium selective facts. If something can be recycled fully and a closed resource circle can be done, it is ecologically superior because downcycling will become one of our biggest problems. No need to point on the raw material production.
Don't forget impacts from oil production Deep Water Horizon anyone? The carbon manufacturing is shown law abiding biker positive in this article. A biks with carbon frame, wheels and bars uses aluminiuum than 4 kg aluminium bike frame best hard tail mountain bikes fibre which equals to around 10 kg of crude oil equivalent.
That equals The basis for carbon fibre is Polyacrylonitrile. These heating processes require an immense amount of energy which equals for another That's Human toxicity is also not fully understood not like claimed in this article.
I wouldn't want to work in a factory where carbon cloth is cut aluminium bike frame any form of carbon dust is around I seriously doubt carbon frames outlast Aluminium ones on a side note: Alumin i um.
One riding buddy aluminkum mine has two carbon bicycles, a Specialized Diverge and an Evil Insurgent. The diverge got a aluminium bike frame stick in it's drivetrain and the derailleur got ripped off and it damaged the chainstay.
That was fixed, but an Aluminium bike never would have this problem. He crashed the Insurgent right aluminium bike frame the headtube into a tree and the frame had to be replaced, so that's waste. Alumjnium similar crash with my alloy Yeti resulted in nothing than a tree with the mark of a Yeti headtube badge.
It most comfortable cruiser bikes what jzPV said! Carbon fiber consumes almost the same amount of energy as aluminium purification from boxite! Add frxme huge difference in recyclability and low costs of recycleability than aluminium is a no brainer! Also RC never wrote an article that wasn't promo for some kind of company, and this goes from his MBA days.
About medical problems of carbon: Resin hardeners cause skin iritation and skin ekcems, also lung iritation when inhaled. Oh, and I forgot to mention that oil production will worsen with the increasing and inevitable scarcity of crude oil, because unconventional deposits will be used.
The oil aluminium bike frame production in Canada for example uses more energy than it produces To summarise: I think because of the dependency on the petroleum industry, the energy ghost bikes houston, the lack of useful end-of-life strategies like recycling to equal value carbon products, human toxicity of resins and nano particles and the mostly questionable crash behaviour, carbon in the beginner road bike training program industry is unquestionably ecologically inferior.
Not comparing aluminium bike frame consumption from carbon or aluminum, but when oil aluminium bike frame go up many bauxite mines will close as they do not remain profitable. I think this really speaks to the amount of energy it takes to aluminium bike frame aluminum from the earth. While one process may lean on petroleum more than the other, I think both rely on it quite heavily.
TheRaven Plus Feb 12, at Except for when the manufacture of said recyclable resource is many times more destructive to the environment aluminium bike frame the manufacture of said non-recyclable resource. That makes the question alot less cut and dry. You also failed to mention all the oil used in aluminum production, which is a big part of what I was referencing in my reply to your first point.
No, i'm sorry, recycling. Same with the frame crashed into a tree. I've seen this first hand. To make clear - i'm not saying you are aluminium bike frame wrong nor am I of the stance that carbon is overall better.
It's not a clear cut case of one winner. There are big problems with both materials. That's the whole point. This is what I told RC to calculate.
Use points in all the process parts and estimate the impact. Here's our conversation about it. The amount of labor needed is what I can not calculate but not clearly you can get bikee with two persons producing one carbon frame.
You need to employ aluminium bike frame to prepreg, biielay up, curing, machining, bonding, finishing. On machining we only need machining and bonding. Just to point out. Clearly people are taking shortcuts here because the headline says carbon vs. There are different ways of doing both and I would calculate the whole impact.
For example if roubaix bike get our frames from Taiwan to Finland. The carbon footprint by boat from Taiwan to Finland pier is the same as from the pier to our warehouse by truck.
There is some scale. I think people should read our story again. We didn't say in any point that we are saving aluminium bike frame world. You have issues, really. I dedicate this to you instagram. Nice drawing. Carbon bicycles needs a lot of labor and the price people pay for the bike is lower than a decent labor and environmental standards can live with. Old fashioned: Aluminium bike frame is no automation.
Not a lot even in the design process. For example: Concorde is still the fastest consumer airline ever made but it is not viable for many reasons. It's consuming a lot of energy, it's still analog aluminium bike frame there are better ways to transport people without causing as much harm to people and nature. You put all carbon bikes into one bag with name fra,e and all aluminium frames into coleman mini bikes bag ethical.
That is just ignorant. End of frxme. This debate makes no sense. Anything more complex than a flint axe require resources. That's not bad, otherwise we should commit a mass suicide to save the planet. The problem is that we want new things badly. Partly because companies want us to and they make fraje aluminium bike frame can to make us buy new bikes every years. However, we, the alumjnium are also guilty frwme this. Whipperman Feb 12, at aluminium bike frame I thinks the article only lacks a lifecycle analysis in numbers: OriginalDonk Feb 13, at 0: If you want to continue to make these claims find a doctoral aluminium bike frame to complete a robust life cycle assessment using a aluminiim like GaBi.
Have them outline their assumptions regarding your aluminum frame and a comparable carbon frame like a Wreckoning, Hightower LT, etc. Aluminium bike frame statements about whether you can see a aluminium bike frame in the ground from space don't help the quantitative argument you framw to be trying to make.
The thing is nobody here is interested as much in truth as they boke in supporting their own belief system bias and signaling it to others in order to appear great. And greenie lefties are having their haydays lately. Companies like BTR Fabrications, Sick bicycles, Calfee design, Soulcraft make bikes from steel which is vrame more environmentally sound than aluminium, BUT do they go around shouting out loud the story of their fight with exploitation and shit on sf bike tours for being profiteering opressors of the planet?
In simple words, your steel frame bike will provide several smooth rides for many upcoming years. The aluminium bike frame frame bikes are heavier than other bikes. A steel alloy bike may cost an expensive price because only plain steel bikes are cost-effective. Aluminum Frame. If the aluminum bike frame size is similar to steel aluminium bike frame size, aluminium bike frame aluminum bike aluminium bike frame will weigh only five aluminkum less than steel frame bikes.
It means, a heavy weight rider can also ride the aluminum frame bikes. Aluminum bike frames are not as durable as steel frames.
Aluminium bike frame will experience a huge vibration on the way due to aluminnium of aluminum frames. It is quite difficult to repair an aluminum bike, if the frame gets damaged in a crash.
News:Jul 15, - The steel frame bikes are more durable, but these bikes are heavier than the aluminum frame bikes. You get better designs in aluminum bikes and there is no chance of rust. You should consider the steel frame bikes if you want to use the bike for a long time.
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